[ausev] questions for Jim

Tue Dec 23 18:31:44 GMT 2008

Thanks for what you said. I have been praying that God would lead me to
answers about all this stuff so I wouldn't have so much hate inside about
this issue. Well, you just helped me out alot. All I have read for the last
year or so is all the negative comments to news articles about car companies
actions to alternate fuels. Now you have introduced me to an idea that I
have never heard that makes way more since.

I have wondered about converting my truck to electric. I know that the
transmission in it has lines that run to the radiator. I wasn't sure how to
deal with that. I have read on one conversion site that the radiator is one
of the things you remove in the conversion. Maybe that conversion was a
manual tranny. The transfer case also has pressure lines. I am not sure how
to deal with any of this? The thought of converting an automatic tranny
seems not do-able unless I know more.

Thanks Ian,

Jim

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Ian Ward <ian.ward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, Jim.
> > Like the movie says, electric cars dont have transmissions, oil filters,
> oil changes, oil pumps, radiators, millions of moving parts, radiators,
> sensors,.. etc.etc
>
> Most electric cars have transmissions, especially conversions. The EV1 also
> did and so does mine, they're single-speed reducers, which are still
> transmissions. These also have an oil pump, a radiator, sensors and etc,
> etc... Some have these parts and some don't. EVs can be more simple and have
> fewer moving parts (golf carts), but like most things, it is incorrect to
> generalize. In some ways, they are even more complex - especially hybrids.
>
> > [the RAV4EV] was the only electric car that was alowed to stay in the
> renter's ownership, and only just a few at that. And why did they lease the
> cars instead of selling them?
>
> First of all, many Ford Ranger EVs were released from lease to the owners.
> Ford also offered the truck for outright sale. Of 300 or so still at large,
> at least 3 are here in Austin and one is mine.
>
> GM also sold many of their S-10EV to utilities and the military, of which
> many are in the hands of consumers by way of auctions. The number of trucks
> out there is actually known, but not disclosed by Jeff Thomas, who runs EV
> Bones, which services and restores them. Last year he helped get one of the
> remaining EV1s (given to a university) running again. He is a great guy who
> is very knowledgeable and has a personal side project that will blow your
> mind:
> http://www.attackforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23
>
> It is no secret that the major OEMs didn't want to make EVs. They've been
> public about their reasons. This was a brand new vehicle drive train and
> they leased the vehicles so they could more easily handle unanticipated
> support problems if they were to become widespread. Leases allowed them
> to retain ownership of the vehicles that cost far more to make than they
> were leased for. While I hate it as much as anyone, it also allowed GM
> to recall and end support programs for them. Once they won the lawsuit
> against the California CARB and the leases expired, that is exactly what
> they did. The OEMs' business model relies on huge volume. For every vehicle
> they make, there are warranty programs, service training, parts inventory,
> and a million other things that are very expensive to do unless you can
> spread the cost over tens of thousands of vehicles. The way they all handle
> the liability of unsupported vehicles is crushing them. I would shed a tear
> every time I visited Nissan a few years ago for work and watched them load
> up dozens of BEAUTIFUL test cars to take to the crusher. That is just how
> they do it. It was especially hard to see the EV1s go.
>
> Ford recognized the bad publicity GM's hard stance was creating and made an
> unheard of exception by letting their Ranger EV owners buy their trucks off
> lease with the agreement that there would be no warranty support and parts
> would eventually be unavailable. I wish all OEMs would find a way to do
> this, rather than crush experimental program cars. The expense and liability
> is just too great for most. When you think about how litigious our society
> has become, it is hard to blame them.
>
> There is an email list you might be interested in
> called electric_vehicles_for_sale. It's run by a guy named Doug Korthof and
> is much more of an angry political activist list that leans sharply toward
> the tin-foil hat brigade. Be warned: he heavily moderates the content and if
> he doesn't agree with what you say, the list won't see your message. Once I
> realized that it wasn't an EV classifieds list (silly me), I attempted to
> reply with some honest facts to a couple of the irrational rants, but Doug
> owns the marbles and won't let anyone play unless they support the flow of
> dogma. Controlling information is usually a good indication that someone has
> a below-board agenda. There are times for protest and I certainly have no
> love for the greed of big 3 and big oil, but the one-sided discussion made
> that list a waste of my time.
>
> With the bailout looming, I would consider political activism to be a good
> thing at this moment, but with hope and optimism as the theme, rather
> than conspiracy and doom.
>
> While everyone has their own perspective, I personally feel that the best
> form of activism is taking personal accountability, doing things yourself,
> sharing your knowledge and experiences and helping others. The EVDL and
> AustinEV lists are much more constructive and positive. I encourage everyone
> I know to learn more. I'm honest about the upsides and downsides of
> EVs. Where GM saw a liability, companies like Tesla, Aptera, Zenn, REVOLT
> and countless others see opportunity. The Ranger EV mailing list that I'm on
> is another great example of this. Sure, we hate that Ford ended their EV
> program, but we don't hate them for giving us these great vehicles when they
> could have more easily crushed them. We just help each other keep them
> running, however we can. The officers of our Austin EAA chapter have donated
> countless hours of their lives for years to people around here for the sake
> of promoting EVs. I find that doing things is more fulfilling than
> complaining and speculating, as well as actually being easier than trying to
> influence massive corporations. Of course, don't tell that to Chris Paine
> ;-)
>
> Last, but not least, your political stance also has a lot more credibility
> when you have first-hand experience of owning and driving EVs. Many people
> can't. It's too expensive, unworkable, and/or too constraining. In all
> honesty, all of those apply to me, as well. It is a passion and I continue
> to struggle with it, but it gives me and those around me a better
> understanding of what it really is and means to drive an EV.
>
> Cheers,
> ian
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Jim Watson <osious at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Your right, my anger may be due to my understanding or miss-understanding
>> of oil companies and or the market. But there have been many speculations
>> that I have heard from peers and the news. People in Alaska are very upset
>> about fuel prices, especially since they use it to warm their homes as well
>> as move cars. Alaskans experienced the highest price of the whole country!
>> Many states as well as the Fed have been starting investigations in to the
>> high crude oil prices,.... This is why I don't trust big oil,... ( I also
>> don't trust oil companies or car companies because they got rid of the
>> electric car so thoroughly and quickly!,... Who Killed the Electric Car ) I
>> feel like the way those companies treated the electric car it is almost like
>> they are trying to erase it from History. Like the movie says, electric cars
>> dont have transmissions, oil filters, oil changes, oil pumps, radiators,
>> millions of moving parts, radiators, sensors,.. etc.etc,... All this stuff
>> is more complicated and less effiecent. But all this stuff, when it brakes,
>> (and it is all designed with a certain life span), it will continue to make
>> money for car companies and oil companies (its like you are renting the car
>> because you are still paying for parts to keep it running unless you buy a
>> new car). I think that in a way buying new parts for your car all the time
>> will help the economy. The electric car is so effiecent and has so few
>> moving parts that in my opinion was causing the car companies to realize
>> that they would loose money over the elctric cars. Many RAV4-ev owners have
>> stated that the only thing that they have fixed on their electric car was
>> the wipers and tires and brakes,... This was the only electric car that was
>> alowed to stay in the renter's ownership, and only just a few at that. And
>> why did they lease the cars instead of selling them???? I think they still
>> wanted control of the car so it would be easy to remove them from public
>> knowledge. I have gone so far as to entertain the thought of the Oil market
>> being one of the culprits that started this recession,... ( high oil prices
>> meens people have less money to spend on other items). But as you say, and I
>> agree, I am not that knowledgeable about the market. I feel like the market
>> is so vast, even if you had a doctorit in the finacial market you would
>> still not know enough.
>>
>> Here is a partial list of news papers that are talking about
>> investigations of the oil market. Just google "investigations of oil
>> comanpies" and see what you get,....
>>
>> New York Times
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/25/business/25cftc.html
>>
>> Chicago Sun-Times
>>
>> http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/06/obama_calling_on_tighter_regul.html
>>
>> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/05/gas_prices246.html
>>
>>
>> http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20080529/govt-discloses-investigation-of-crude-oil-market.htm
>>
>> *If you read any of these you should read a little of this one, then read
>> the commentary from readers at the bottom of the page.*
>>
>> http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/sep/15/oil-prices-tumble-lehman-failure-light-ike-damage/
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Joby Wieser <sleeper02_14_06 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> Why are you so angry?   What is wrong with people buying what they want
>>> to buy?  For a host of reasons a lot of Americans love big cars, that isn't
>>> a crime and why do you think you have a right to tell other people what they
>>> should drive?
>>>
>>> Where did you get the idea that the oil companies have any control over
>>> the car companies or vice versa?  Or for that matter that the oil companies
>>> could ever hope to own the entire electric utility industry.  If you want to
>>> see big business, examine the size of the electric generation transmission
>>> and distribution industry as a whole, they would dwarf the car and oil
>>> companies combined.
>>>
>>> Why do you think the "gas companies" have to power to raise or lower the
>>> price of their commodity?  If they did, why would they ever lower the price?
>>> Please read a book on how markets work, it will change your outlook
>>> substantially.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AusEV mailing list
>>> AusEV at austinev.org
>>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusEV mailing list
>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusEV mailing list
> AusEV at austinev.org
> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.austinev.org/pipermail/ausev/attachments/20081223/9312d492/attachment.html 