[ausev] Austin EV startup

[evehicle4me at hischopsticks.org]

In every serious discussion of hydrogen generation I have read the  
solution has always come down to using some kind of solar energy (i.e.  
stationery, not moving) to generate the energy needed to create  
hydrogen.  This includes wind turbines, wave turbines or solar  
collectors, even mirrors tracking the sun to create a solar steam  
engine.  Yes, there is no such thing as a free lunch, it takes money  
to make money and it takes energy to make energy.  These are all  
given.  The problem we 21st century folk have is that we want to be  
mobile, and to be comfortable while moving about.

Hydrogen as a fuel is a great idea but generating it on the fly has  
some challenges.  The bottom line is what is the net exchange?  What  
do you gain?  Back in the last 70's I read an article in Popular  
Mechanics or Science about a group of scientists that had created a  
way to store hydrogen as a compound with a loose molecular bond to  
another element.  When hot gas (even from the exhaust) was passed  
through this system hydrogen would be released and could be used.   
Thus it could be stored in a relatively safe manner, free from images  
of the Hindenberg, etc


Quoting Charlesvsi at aol.com:

> one last word on hydrogen, Don't forget it must be compressed and kept sub
> zero cold to store it efficiently.
> . And if it escapes and starts to burn, that's called an explosion, Who
> wants this compressor plant in their back yard. The first explosion will kill
> many, and will  kill hydrogen as a public commodity.
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/31/2008 5:38:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> bytedawg at bytetamer.com writes:
>
>
> Erik
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:50 AM, m. edmund howse  <_bytedawg at bytetamer.com_
> (mailto:bytedawg at bytetamer.com) > wrote:
>
> Actually it isn't off topic because  hydrogen is a good source of electricity
> for the electric motor.
> I'm  working on an electric motorcycle and auto at the moment myself. And.
> A  lot of discussion here has been in regards to some form of generating
> power  to provide electricity to charge batteries etc. ICE are of   
> course a good
> potential depending on the fuel. As far as I'm concerned the cleaner the
> better. But if hydrogen on demand works and some claim it does then   
> you may  only
> need one battery in your electric vehicle instead of dozens and your  range
> will be unlimited. Kind of scary. But if you want to use batteries,   
>  don't let me
> stop you. And of course if you don't want or can't believe it  can be done I
> won't argue with you either. But so far from my experience it  only takes 12
> watts of power to begin extracting hydrogen from plain old tap  water.
> As far as I'm concerned whether hydrogen is used as a source of  electricity
> to power an electric motor or as a source of energy to power an  ICE that
> could do either should be of concern to  all.
>
> marv
>
>
>
> Ian Ward wrote:
>
> I think you misunderstand my point, Marv.  This  being the Austin ELECTRIC
> Vehicles mailing list, I'm not comparing it to  the efficiency of   
> gasoline, I'm
> comparing it to a pure electric  drive.
>
> Sure, with hydrogen drive (HCE or fool cell) you are  removing the millions
> of point sources of pollution and there is something  to be said for  
>  that, but
> when you compare the energy it takes to power a  hydrogen car vs an electric
> car, you're wasting a lot of energy - the  pollution of THAT is certainly an
> argument.
>
> - ian
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:26 AM, m. edmund howse  <_bytedawg at bytetamer.com_
> (mailto:bytedawg at bytetamer.com) > wrote:
>
> Efficiency???? How much energy do  you think it takes, Ian, to produce
> gasoline??? And how much pollution  does this process create???
> As far as hydrogen is concerned, I have  built a hydrogen generator and I
> cannot understand why
> anyone would  NOT consider this a feasible source of energy to power an
> automobile.
> Hydrogen burns clean, really clean, producing only water.  And if you
> integrate this concept into the efficiency quotient in the    
> reduction of pollution, I
> think the efficiency concept is not even an  argument.
>
> marv
>
>
> Ian Ward wrote:
>
> I am more interested in their plug-in electrics, which  admittedly, don't
> seem to be the focus of their business. I was just  wondering if they've
> attempted to work or consult with anyone in the  vicinity.
>
> I don't believe hydrogen is a viable energy storage  medium because "it's the
> efficiency, stupid."  Although, when you  are talking about super-performance
> cars, you get to hand-wave those  kinds of rational arguments at will.
>
> - ian
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Gil Dawson  <_Gil at gil.dawson.name_
> (mailto:Gil at gil.dawson.name) > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> At 4:30 P -0500 5/30/08, Ian Ward wrote:
> Has anyone met/talked with these guys?  This is out of the  blue to me...
>
> _http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html_
> (http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html)
> _http://www.ronnmotors.com/_ (http://www.ronnmotors.com/)
>
>
>
>
> I haven't, but it's an interesting idea.  Hydrogen is  expensive, relative to
> gasoline (or, at least it was when they first  suggested fuel cell cars.)
> But you only consume it when  you want to go fast.
>
>
> Would you call this a hybrid?
>
>
> If this idea sells then, if gas prices rise faster than  hydrogen prices
> (quite likely, IMHO), I can imagine that eventually  they could   
> offer a series of
> aftermarket kits that would let the  owner use more and more hydrogen and
> require less and less  gas.
>
>
> Ronn's taking a post-modernist approach to the  transition.
>
>
> --Gil
>
>
> P.S.  The article doesn't say, but these cars will burn  hydrogen in an
> internal combustion engine, right?  They're not  talking fuel cell   
> here, are  they?
>
>
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